This episode is in loving memory of Miss Faythe Brannon.
Overview
In this episode, guest co-hosts Adia Wallace and Dr. Jen Tsan talk with Esmeralda, Faythe, and Santiago, three K-12 Computer Science teachers. They share their experiences teaching in the U.S. and Colombia and how they cultivated community and care despite the challenges brought on by the onset of the pandemic.
We encourage you to engage with the resources in Part 1 to become more familiar with the topic of K-12 teaching before engaging with this kitchen-table talk. The resources were curated by our kitchen-table talk guest speakers and hosts– among many others, the resources they share have helped inform their scholarship and their own lived resistance.
If you’d like to contribute to an episode’s follow up (part 3, coming out in June!), please feel free to reach out to us. We’d love to feature art, poetry, think pieces, and other forms of media inspired by the conversations from our podcast!
Guest Host(s) and Speaker(s)
Co-hosted by: Dr. Jen Tsan and Adia Wallace
Featuring: Esmeralda, Faythe Brandon, and Santiago Ojeda-Ramirez
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Read (Transcript)
[00:00:00] Victoria: Hello and welcome back to the Recipes for Resistance Podcast, a multimodal podcast centering justice, joy, and healing. I’m your host Victoria.
[00:00:25] Bri: And I’m your host, Bri. We’re here today with Jen and Adia, who are the co-hosts covering this episode with a wonderfully thought-provoking conversation with K-12 computer science teachers.
[00:00:35] Adia: Hi y’all. My name is Adia Wallace and I’m a second year PhD student. I’m originally from Jackson, Mississippi. Previously I worked on STEM outreach programs and I taught computer science to sixth graders in Massachusetts. I was grandfathered into the all levels license because the license that I was getting, the teaching license pretty much, for guess it wasn’t even computer science, it was called instructional Technology. They were phasing it out. And so knowing that, pretty much, in year three of my teaching career, I would have to figure out how to get the new license, opened up different avenues for me to explore. And, COVID pretty much got me back to looking at pursuing PhD. And so I hope to go back into the schools after it, or at least the school district. So yeah, that’s me.
[00:01:30] Jen: Hi everyone. I’m Jen. I work as a research associate with WestEd and I’ve been focusing on computer science research in general and outreach for many years. A lot of times in my work I work with K 12 teachers and students, but I’m also starting to work with undergraduate students and faculty members.
[00:01:50] Victoria: And joining today in this kitchen table talk are our guests, Faythe, Esmeralda, Santiago.
[00:01:55] Faythe: My name is Faythe Brannon. I am a computer science teacher in a large school district in Illinois. I’ve been teaching computer science, or actually been working in the computer science field within this large school district for it’s been 10 years. 10 years now. Yeah. And so in my existence, working with the district, I’ve pretty much focused on computer science. However, my background is business as well as computer education.
[00:02:24] Esmeralda: Hi, I am Esmeralda. I am a computer science in the large urban school district in Illinois. I’ve been working in this district for over 16 years. First in the tech department and now as a computer science teacher. And that’s pretty much it.
[00:02:43] Santiago: Hi everyone. I am Santiago Ojeda-Ramirez. I am a second year PhD student at the University of California Irvine. I research computer science education and STEAM education for elementary school students. I’m also in and out learning environments, like in and out school learning environments. And previously I was a middle school and elementary school teacher, computer science teacher at Bogota, Colombia. And I also designed pedagogical support and pedagogical strategies for rural teachers in the rural Colombia. And I taught for fourth graders and for eighth graders back then. And then I came here to do my PhD.
[00:03:24] Jen: Let’s dive in and feast on some new perspectives from CS teachers’ experiences during the Covid 19 pandemic we’re sure they will get your mind simmering!
[00:03:33] Jen: So our first overall question is, what is it like teaching CS during a pandemic? And we’re aware that everybody’s still experiencing a pandemic, and as teachers and former K-12 students, we have experience a variety of different schedules, expectations, and requirements for the school day. And I know that the pandemic required many professionals to consider alternate modalities, especially during lockdown. And we’ve learned new terms like synchronous and asynchronous and have used a lot of video conferencing software like Zoom right now. But I know that teachers and school staff also had a lot of confusing and unique challenges. So does anybody want to talk about that overall question and then we’ll also ask specifically about teaching remotely and teaching hybrid and everything like that?
[00:04:23] Faythe: Yeah. I believe, when it first came about, I believe everybody was in this shock of what to do. There’s a lot of moving parts you have things to consider, such as, not all of students, at least, where I’m from because there’s a need, so all of our students did not have computers at home, access to computers. So there needed to be a way to create a system where students were to come to the school to obtain laptops. And then we had to ensure that even if they have laptops, they have access to the internet at home. And then we had to make sure, because the platform that was used was Google Classroom and Google Classroom wasn’t necessarily used on a regular basis in the classrooms when we were face to face, so that had to be learned. And so there were a lot of areas where students had to be taught and understand like the systems and the structures. And it was a lot for them to adjust and adapt to. I know for myself, I’m the type of teacher that the interactions and the face-to-face, that actually helps motivate me because if I can see a student, I can tell and get cues on whether or not they understand the concept. If I’m able to do it, just a quick checking for understanding, in their eyes I can usually tell oh, I may need to go deeper, or I may need re- approach a question or a discussion. But our students weren’t required to have their video on, which was very important. But the district didn’t require us to do that. And so I’m sitting here looking at a screen and I’m showing my face, but I’m looking at all of these blank screen of 30 students. And so it was very difficult to make connections. And one of the things that we thrive for in our computer science classrooms is to make connections because one of the struggles that we’ve had, in computer science, is that science has been known to be a classroom that is not your ordinary, typical, average classroom for African American and Latino students to understand and enjoy. And so we took great efforts to make sure that we bridged that gap. And a lot of it had to do with making and having an environment, a learning environment where they were comfortable. And it takes a lot to do that, but it’s hard to create that atmosphere when I am looking at a computer screen with, faces or just, these avatars. And for me, I think that was one of the biggest challenges that I had to endure is making or the lack of my ability to make connections with students. It was painful, because I just felt like I was just there by myself and so I had to be creative and asking them to, offering extra credit or, almost begging the students to like, can you just turn on your, screens so that I can do attendance? There was a big disconnect with that and it was unfortunate because I think it allowed students to disconnect and I think we lost a lot of students during that time and it really set them back. And some of them to this day have not, in my belief, connected to learning. But that’s just in my experiences.
[00:08:02] Esmeralda: In my experience, when the first time we went like back in what, March, 2020? I had already been with those students, so those connections were already there. And, for the most part with getting on Google Classroom and all that, the students already knew, cuz I already had my classroom set up. Getting on the Google Meets was a whole different thing. There was a lot of different rules sent from all over. Some people were telling us to create a calendar invite and then close it. And it was like every week there was a different guideline to do. And it was just very frustrating. Like some kids were like, do we use this link? Do we use that link? Which link? And it was very difficult to get everybody on the same link. And then eventually they added the classroom links, which was very helpful. Then, we finished that year off like that online. And that was fine. Getting a whole new set of students in September on remote. Again, that was slightly more difficult because I didn’t know these students and building that, those relationships I think took a little bit extra, a little more work to do that. Because kids were not aware of who I was. And a lot of these kids were freshmen and, they’re new to the school, they don’t know any of the teachers and they don’t know the rules. And it was… That was a little bit harder.
[00:09:32] Faythe: No, yeah, I agree. In my situation, I was out of the classroom for, two and a half years, and then I, when I came back, it was a new school and new freshmen, and so the adjustment was challenging to say the least. But yeah, I agree with the whole notion of the asynchronous, I think you mentioned something. Each school, from my understanding, had different structures of how like they implemented, asynchronously, synchronous. And I think that from my perspective, I think it would’ve been better for students not to necessarily always have screen time, but to have space for them to come get instruction and then maybe as teachers, us be available for them to, For them, first of all, to disconnect from the computer because just because you’re on a computer does not mean learning is going on. And so it would’ve been better to set up a system and a cadence for my students to say, okay, here’s your instructions. I want you to step away from the computer and do this activity . If you need me, come check in and I can work you through, I can give you examples and we can brainstorm together and then maybe do another check in, some time during the day and maybe at the end of the day, all of us come together as a class in some way. But I think requiring the students to be in front of the computer for seven or eight hours that they did, I think that it killed their spirit because it wasn’t as engaging and dynamic.
[00:11:10] Esmeralda: Yes.
[00:11:10] Faythe: As it, it just wasn’t as stimulating. And to think back on it, I think that we could have been just as productive or No, no more productive.
[00:11:19] Esmeralda: Yes In my case, the first, in 2020 when they, we first went into remote Yes. We were able to either record our lessons and post them for students or have the kids show up for a certain amount of time.
[00:11:34] Faythe: Yeah.
[00:11:35] Esmeralda: But then the full year they wanted, they did want them there, the full period and
[00:11:40] Faythe: Yeah.
[00:11:41] Esmeralda: And we had a lot of students who were on like, the very basic internet.
[00:11:47] Faythe: Yeah.
[00:11:48] Esmeralda: And they were either exceeding their bandwidth, they were running out of gigabytes.
[00:11:52] Faythe: Yeah.
[00:11:52] Esmeralda: So they couldn’t even connect.
[00:11:55] Santiago: Yes. I think that I agree with you both, and I think the matter with computer science, with the subject we teach is that when you teach this virtually, it could be like an overload of computer time. It could be overload of screen time.
[00:12:10] Faythe: Absolutely.
[00:12:10] Santiago: Because for example, if you’re doing, in my case Spanish or English, you can just assign some like asynchronous time in which they can do it on their own with their notebook or something. But in our case, things are meant to do, meant to be drawn in the computer.
[00:12:24] Faythe: Yes.
[00:12:24] Santiago: So they can be super overloaded. And I really connect with something else you said, which is about the connection because, and about, sometimes like being a teacher in the classroom when they have a problem with the link, you just solve that in a matter of seconds. Oh no, it’s this one. That’s it.
[00:12:40] Faythe: Yep.
[00:12:41] Santiago: Or oh no, you just move this to a little bit to the left. That’s it. But on the virtual, especially I work with younger students, like fourth grade students, and yes, they were like learning and gaining like computational literacies and computational thinking, but their like digital literacy was still developing. So they really get frustrated with not the correct link. Not the Google Classroom, the critical Google Classroom thing and everything. And if we were like in person, I would just help them.
[00:13:12] Faythe: Yep.
[00:13:12] Santiago: And connect with them just right away.
[00:13:15] Faythe: Yep.
[00:13:15] Santiago: But here as a teacher, I don’t know if this was your case, but you have to guide them on how to help themselves to solve these computational problems. So I think it’s an overlay, like a new layer of difficulties.
[00:13:29] Faythe: Yes. I think that there’s a reason why, first of all, face-to-face teaching is so important, so that they can just get that instant support. It speaks to like the need for the face-to-face support. Students gain certain skills at certain grade levels. And I think, for example, I work with ninth graders and structurally, they missed a lot of things in their fourth, let’s see, I think it’s fourth, fifth, and sixth that were, they, that’s gone from since the pandemic. And so those structural, I won’t say common sense, but the things that they learned structurally, they lack that now face-to-face. And so then now I feel like I have to like, retrain them on or help them understand the importance of basic things like understanding the time or understanding the structures in the classroom or rules and regulations that, that I wouldn’t have to do in past years. And so there’s like a new norm of the skills that they don’t know [when they] come in our classrooms. And I think it’s because of the pandemic. And it’s very new.
[00:14:40] Santiago: Yes, I agree completely.
[00:14:42] Faythe: I’m still in awe. Yeah. I’m at awe and I’m like, oh my God. Because last year, When the first group that came back in first full year, and I’m like, oh my God, they have a lot of deficiencies. And it’s, the deficiencies have to do with understanding that you’re coming back to a structured environment and this attachment to like technology and things like that, it’s just different. And so our approach, my approach to them is totally different. I really have to go back to some of the elementary structures: discipline and having to, redirect them often that I did not have to do pre pandemic. And I was just like clutching my pearls with that group. And then this group, that came after them and I’m like, oh wow. I think that next year is probably, maybe gonna be worse because they missed learning those special, those important skills in that classroom with a face-to-face teacher. And so Yeah, I’m traumatized.
[00:15:47] Esmeralda: Yes. And another of the challenges that I feel like we had is, when you’re in the classroom, a student can pull you to the side and ask you a question that they didn’t understand.
[00:15:56] Faythe: Sure.
[00:15:57] Esmeralda: While it’s online, everybody can see either in the chat if they’re asking a question or it was like they couldn’t really pull you to the side. There was all these rules about being in breakout rooms with students alone. Like you had to have somebody there. It was like you could,
[00:16:13] Faythe: yeah. You couldn’t,
[00:16:14] Esmeralda: you couldn’t,
[00:16:15] Faythe: in essence. Right.
[00:16:16] Faythe: It’s like
[00:16:16] Esmeralda: students were embarrassed to ask questions if they had them.
[00:16:19] Faythe: Yeah.
[00:16:19] Esmeralda: And I think the rules that we had to abide by made that even worse.
[00:16:24] Esmeralda: Yeah.
[00:16:25] Faythe: And building their comfort level. Just, yeah. Just to be. Able to say, your voice means something.
[00:16:33] Santiago: Yeah, I feel like, as you said, like the connection that, or more like the intimacy that a student can build with the teacher was saying like, Hey, I acknowledge this is hard and you can have this intimacy with me and tell me in secret like how hard this is for you. But this Zoom environment, this Google Meet environment… you know, computer science is not that easy. It’s really hard. So I feel that that structure of socialization in which they confess to you that they’re not understanding and in which they can, you, like all these ways you can, or strategies you can use to personalize learning are gone or not gone… I feel like us as teachers, we need to adapt to this way of socialization and I don’t know, innovate on ways to acknowledge their struggling and try to build intimacy in this way.
[00:17:28] Faythe: Yeah. And I think that it put us all at a major disadvantage because I even know myself, being at PDs virtually there’s a disconnect, right? Unless I already naturally know I’m interested in a particular topic, then I know that I’m gonna be engaged. But here in this environment where computer science, depending on what level the students maybe have not gotten "aha, I love it" and so then we have to do things creatively to pique their interests. And it’s just more of a challenge, I’ll just say that. But I think that the superpower that we do have as teachers is having that face-to-face engagement that is just a win for us. And putting us in front of a computer where we’re not able, they can see me, but I can’t see them. It’s just different. And I just hope in the years that I have ahead of me that I never have to face a pandemic and if I do, it is structured in a way that makes sense. Cause it was painful. Yeah. Yeah. It was painful.
[00:18:33] Santiago: It is painful. And I feel like as teachers, I love the metaphor you used as like superpower.
[00:18:39] Faythe: Yeah.
[00:18:39] Santiago: Like we really had to develop this musical power of adaptability. They were learning computer science and we were learning how to teach computer science virtually.
[00:18:48] Faythe: Yeah. And hopefully they will empower teachers to have a little bit more voice to say, how best should we move forward with this? Because I think that if we were to look back on where we started, that wasn’t the best way we should have handled it in that overall.
[00:19:11] Santiago: Yes.
[00:19:12] Faythe: But I think that sometimes leadership doesn’t necessarily have the time to rally around teachers and ask opinions. But something like this, I think that the time just should have been taken to say "what makes sense teachers?" And we could come back and revisit it, cuz we have to be flexible we’re teachers. But I just think that it really had a social and emotional impact on our students as well as teachers. It really changed who they are. It really did because but then now there was a small percentage of students that thrived, but
[00:19:50] Santiago: yeah. Yeah.
[00:19:51] Faythe: I think it was because they already had a certain structure drive innately that worked for them.
[00:19:59] Santiago: Yeah. I don’t know if you had this experience, but did you, like when you’re having, when you were having like all these teachers meeting, like this topic of, "hey, this student was really extroverted in person, but now is super timid and virtual environment or this other student was doing so bad in person, but now is doing so good. What is happening? Is someone helping them in – at home or are they just better adapted?" I feel for sure students have like a virtual personality or like aptitude for learning and in person aptitude for learning. Like in my case, I have a lot of students I can think of that they literally changed the person they were, or, and the way you learn, they learn.
[00:20:44] Faythe: So it’s funny that you say that. I remember so vividly. It was my first period class, and I had three students. And I don’t know, I think that they just liked to make jokes about Ms. Brannon, but these young men, they were so hilarious. And I would just be excited just to come in the morning. And I know that they would just make, they always made fun of my coffee because they were like, "how could you drink coffee? It’s mud." And so we would just make a joke every day and they just had these wonderful personalities online, right? And so we come in person and it was like, they changed . I don’t know if it had to do with, interaction with like other students face to face that, that they felt, I don’t know if they didn’t feel as, free to be themselves just in the community, in the culture, in the school. But they were different. And I think that some of the young men found interest in girls. And so it was just funny that when they were isolated, I think I saw them at themselves, their best selves. But then when they actually physically face-to-face interacted with others, their personalities changed. And it just blew me away. They were totally different.
[00:22:02] Adia: So I wanted to, before we go to the next question, cause I know Jen has some questions. This entire conversation reminds me pretty much that was my first year. And as I was, getting towards I guess the second half of the year, and I was feeling more confident about things and I was like, okay, I’m in a groove and things of that sort. Then I was like, okay, we hear about this Covid-19 thing. If it gets here, I don’t know. And then, because I was in Massachusetts, I wanna say Massachusetts was one of the first states, if not the first state that had a case. And, I wanna say my school district was probably one of the first school districts where there was a family that was affected. And that was a very interesting transition. And by interesting, we can insert any other types of words, but pretty much, as someone who had actually done work in online instruction and online professional development, things of that sort. So like I had different, I guess skills and knowledges in that area, when it came to that. So when we finally did go fully online because of lockdown, I would suggest certain things. For instance, even knowing like what’s going on with students, just making sure that we’re keeping contact in some way because there were students that were literally, we didn’t know what was up because we didn’t get any, anything. So social workers probably, were trying to contact them or get in contact with families and things of that sort. Just trying to make sure, not even on a learning, or I guess, that type of level, but even in terms of extending care and concern to students to be like, "Ooh, we haven’t heard from this student or anything from their families. Let’s see if they’re okay that they have the resources that they have." Because, even though I was in a suburban district, we had students that were a variety of, I don’t know, the spectrum of the digital divide. And there was even, like they, I wanna say our district did have one-to-one computers. " Thanks to" standardized testing and I put thanks to in like quotation marks, but, that’s pretty much why, those computers exist. It was originally because of like standardized testing because they started doing computerized tests and like they I don’t even know if they knew if those students had even gotten a computer. I think it, it was just, it was very, disjointed. At some point we got into some sort of groove, but this was after like the state had pushed back, I guess school cancellations. I wanna say we were like the first state to cancel schools. And so like I was, telling people what was up, what was coming next. I think Harvard was the first college to close down. And once they did, MIT did and then everybody else wanted, and so it was just like a domino effect. And I remember being in, in the school building physically, like two days before the term ended, right. Being, "oh, okay, going home". And then when I get home, I get this email that says, "oh, we’re closed for three days and so we’re gonna open the school buildings up tomorrow, so that you all can go get materials". And that was the last time I was in my classroom for several months. So my school district, did do an in-person and hybrid approach. So I did return back to the school building that following September. But yeah, it was definitely, very eerie to literally be like within a span of two weeks, like so many changes had happened and then for pretty much to, to see, a lockdown and quarantine. All these things that you read about but you don’t actually think that you’re going to experience. Of course there was all the things to do with even outside of computer science with… people call it like the double pandemic with like different uprising scenes and things of that sort that even happened at that time. Yeah, that, that was definitely the start. And so while you were all were saying like there was just so many changes and so many things to protocols and things of that sort to contend with, I affirm it.
[00:26:18] Faythe: Yeah.
[00:26:18] Adia: Wholeheartedly.
[00:26:20] Faythe: Right because, in our situation, like we didn’t know, whether or not we were gonna be face-to-face or virtual. Literally, maybe a couple weeks before the school started because it would’ve helped us if we would’ve known summer, like plan on being virtual. And so because of all the uncertainty, I know a lot of teachers were worried like, "what are we gonna do?" Because we still ourselves had our families to think about ourselves. It was chaotic. It was stressful. I’m just surprised that we made it through as well as we did, honestly, because it was, yeah, it was a lot. It was a lot. Kudos us from making it through. And I don’t know how we did. I don’t know how we did. We still had family members that we had to care for. I know people that have passed from it. I know students that have had the virus and then managing that of them, even when we were virtual, like they have it. They’ll be out for some time. So how can we best support them? I just focused on care like, I didn’t, it wasn’t about a grade. We’re just here to support each other. And if a student told me that they were sick, I just prayed for them, and just said, "please let you know, the district know and the principal know, and I didn’t get into details, but I just prayed that they would come back because it was bigger than school. It’s bigger than school, but I worried all the time because we were still uncertain, like, when are we gonna get out of this? Like, when are we gonna get out of this? But yeah, we still have concerns because we could easily turn the corner. Right now, the numbers are increasing and if enough, if not enough people get boosted, our numbers could look bad and we could be having a discussion of "what are our next steps?"
[00:28:22] Esmeralda: Yeah. Like with us, our numbers are increasing and like a week will go by and a kid’s not in school, but there’s no alert for us. And the kid comes back and says, oh, I had Covid. And it’s okay.
[00:28:37] Adia: And they’re like, "hi!"
[00:28:42] Esmeralda: yes! It’s like we don’t know. And then like I, before last year we were told we had to open up a virtual classroom and teach hybrid
[00:28:53] Faythe: Yep.
[00:28:53] Esmeralda: I don’t know what’s going on now. Now I don’t even get an alert that a student is at home or sick. I get randomly, I’ll get little pictures by their names, but it doesn’t say anything other than that little picture, which I don’t really know exactly what it means. And sometimes the kid, I’ll ask the kids, do you, did they, did the office tell you something? Cuz technically we’re not allowed to ask them any medical information.
[00:29:19] Faythe: Yep. HIPAA
[00:29:21] Esmeralda: I would ask them if the office let them know why they’re flagged for this and they don’t know. So then I’m not gonna continue on with the questioning them cuz if they don’t know, I’m not bringing it up.
[00:29:34] Faythe: Yeah. I do wish communication could have been a little bit more efficient and made sense just as an awareness of "you have a student"– especially once we came back, "you have a student that has it, please be aware". And then hopefully all of those parents knew. But with the breakdown and communication, I’m not 100% certain that everybody that was in contact was made aware because things would just change so often. And it, I just, yeah, I just believe that communication should be consistent and well structured. For safety measures because we do want to control the beast.
[00:30:25] Esmeralda: About the past month, I’ve been having a lot of kids in and out. There’ll be three, four kids out for a week and then the next week it’s another three, four kids. But then we never know why.
[00:30:37] Faythe: And I think that our data can show that they were amongst the last that have been, have gotten the vaccine or have not at all. Now we have a lot of debate in our community about, my students, for whatever reason, they haven’t been because of beliefs. Even though, we have conversations and speak to data. And so then that’s why a lot of mine have been out. And I just hope because, you just never know how it’s gonna impact you as an individual. And I’m not willing to play Russian roulette when I’m interacting with hundreds of kids every day.
[00:31:17] Jen: It does really seem like the school districts could really improve in terms of communication and helping you all out when it comes to when students are sick and when they’ll be remote or in person. Are there any structures that your districts or your particular school or colleagues had for you that helped you with teaching either remotely or in hybrid or transitioning back and forth from hybrid to in-person? And were there, what were other challenges that there weren’t support systems for that you wish you had?
[00:31:52] Esmeralda: A big thing was, We had a lot more things added on our plates. We had to, if a student wouldn’t show up, we had to call them. So with my colleagues, we would create lists of kids that we all had, and then we’ll separate those. And then one of us call for, instead of the parent getting, seven different phone calls, we’d split the kids up between the ones we had to make it a little less on us. But yeah, that was one of the requirements we had. We all had to call every single student that didn’t show up. So I wish we had a little bit more help with that besides adding something additional to us. We always had to reach out to the students and if they needed anything, they, the teachers were always the point of contact. There was no set person that they can talk to if they needed, like additional support besides just in our classroom. Because yes, they had like counselors available, but it’s if the students knew and they talked to you, how do they get ahold of this counselor? They’re already there with you, virtually.
[00:33:05] Adia: Oh, so you were the only point of contact for this? Oh God.
[00:33:09] Esmeralda: Like for a lot of kids it was like we had to write up, like we had to refer them to the counselor and then the counselors would reach out. Like how you do in person, but it’s If the kids never met the counselor doesn’t know how to reach them. It’s like,
[00:33:25] Faythe: sure.
[00:33:25] Esmeralda: How do you push that? In person we could be like, oh, go to their room. Go there. But in virtual, if the counselor’s not available at that time, like it’s impossible to set things up while you still got 30 other kids in the, you know?
[00:33:41] Santiago: Yeah.
[00:33:41] Faythe: Because the interesting thing in our district is that our students may not really know their counselor until junior, senior year, really know them. Like we may only have, I have 200 students in my school. There’s only one counselor, and they handle everything from all the graduation, it’s a lot. And so their focus is seniors and freshmen are sometimes low profile, and so they don’t know them. And so if they need support, then we have to give that guidance. Yeah. Cuz they don’t know them. It’s a lot. It’s a lot.
[00:34:17] Santiago: Yeah. Going back to the question, I just, I really agree with something you said which, which was like, I feel like in my case we went through a lot of professional developments about how to teach online, how to teach hybrid, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I feel like leaderships and people in leadership position should listen a little bit more to the teachers because we were like learning how this was done in practice. And I feel like a lot of theory on how you are supposed to teach hybrid, how you were supposed to teach virtually, they they were theories, Or were theories based on higher education approaches or something like that. And I feel in the practice of teaching, especially hybrid, which I think was really hard for me, you start like refining the way you teach. And I feel that knowledge is a knowledge from the teachers that could benefit other teachers. And I feel like this co-construction of knowledge should be acknowledged and should be leveraged because I feel like all these PDs came from experts, but they don’t know, like people that haven’t taught in these kind of classrooms, in these kind of contexts. And I feel like the PDs were a little bit disconnected from what we were experiencing as teachers. So I feel like, I don’t know, when you ask me what support should I, would I want to have, it will be more conversations on how to refine my teaching practice with other teachers in the same, position and with the same voice. That’s what I would think. I don’t know. What do you think about this?
[00:35:57] Faythe: I agree. And because I think that, and it goes back to what I do at my school may not necessarily fit at your school, but having the autonomy to do what’s best for the, for the professionals. And as long as, we’re working towards making the experience what’s best for the students, trust us in our profession. Having faith in us, we don’t wanna be in this situation. But now that we are, let us do what we have certification to do, and just give us some space and freedom. And if it’s necessary for us to reflect, you know, quarterly to say, how did that work? We’re gonna be in this another quarter. It’s like iterations. We all know computer science. It’s just like sometimes we just have to do something. But make it make sense and yes, make sure that, make sure we understand who is most important in the situation, which is the students. And any of us would’ve elected to put them in front of the computer and stare at the screen for that amount of time with some intention without having some intentionality with it. And the funny thing about it is that I wasn’t enlightened until I, till myself, I experienced a PD where they were like, we’re gonna be synchronous and asynchronous. I’m like, oh. Because I really never thought about "what is an experience for a child sit in front of a computer?" and once I myself experienced it, and I’m like, Faythe, you’re an older kid. If I’m fidgety, if I need to take a break, if I, if I need all these things I know a student would. So therefore, we need to really think about what is important when it comes to that lesson. What do they need to be in front of my face doing, or making sure that I need to check for understandings and make sure that they understand the instructions. And then let them be. Just like I’m, if I’m in my classroom, if I’m in my classroom, I’m giving the instructions. Once I give the instructions, they are then free to move around and do their work in another space or somewhere they’re comfortable in the classroom. And then , I go to check to make sure that they’re on task and being productive. But other than that, do what’s best for you, student. If you want to sit here and be connected with me, that’s fine. But if you want to do what’s best for you, as long as you’re providing me the deliverable at the time we establish, do you.
[00:38:25] Santiago: Yeah.
[00:38:25] Faythe: And that’s, when we understand our students.
[00:38:28] Santiago: Totally.
[00:38:28] Faythe: Yeah. Yeah. Once we understand our students, then we can move on, then it’s a win-win.
[00:38:34] Esmeralda: Yes. And, back to everything with them, it’s not so much of supports, but I would’ve liked a little more understanding, from staff, admin, everybody. Just because I teach computer science does not mean that everything I do can just be moved to the computer. Like I teach robotics. How do I teach robotics virtually if every child does not have their own robot? It’s like at the turn of a dime. They wanted us to just move everything online and just go with it. Like it was just gonna be like that easy. There’s a lot of hands-on things that happen in our classes. That’s not just because it’s focused on the computer doesn’t mean everything’s on there and it’s just ready to go.
[00:39:27] Faythe: Right. Because being on a computer may only be a fourth of the process. Let’s speak to the design, let’s plan. Mapping out the plan, making the plan. Students may want to write it out rather than just use the computer. That lets us know that they don’t understand computer science.
[00:39:43] Adia: Yes. That was actually very huge for me. So I had some intentionality with some stuff and it was not even with the thought that like we would be forced online at the end of the school year. And even going in, I wanted to make it more hands on. So actually that school year, that pretty much my first school year, which was the Covid, the end was Covid. I wanted them to hands on and to reduce screen time because I noticed in a lot of their other classes, because my school did have one-to-one computers, but they were not taking them home, it was just for, pretty much for, standardized testing. I actually think the previous year they tried one-on-one computers with them taking ‘em home, and they realized that they had to do more maintenance on the computers. So they were like, you know what, we’re gonna, hold off on that. And they had to go back. But anyway, and so I didn’t have a Google Classroom. Even though I knew how to use like a learning management system, I had used Google Classroom before. I didn’t have that set up for my students. So there were a lot of things I will put this out there, my administrators, they were, even though there were a lot of things that seemed very disheveled, they communicated I guess at the regular level of communication, which I mean for specials teachers or for teachers that don’t teach math, language, what are the other two? Science, history. You’re not in a loop of a lot of stuff, even though you have all the students. So outside of that, like they were more communicative, I know they were intentional with making sure that every student had at least like three adults that they could talk to. So that you’re not like the sole person that had a point of contact with the student. And so there was stuff like that. But then there was stuff when it came to, things that I didn’t have, set up by then because I was being very intentional with reducing the screen time. So I had to scramble to get a Google Classroom and that was interesting. And then one day they decided, "oh, we’re going to keep the students until the district", sorry, keep the students, meaning they were not going to move to the new term. Which for me, in my school, we were on a rotational thing. So like the students rotated, computer science, art, and some other classes. And so pretty much, those students would’ve gone to their next class. Cuz we were only two days out before like the term ended. Because I wanna say this was before like spring break or whatever, but anyway, I had to scramble that and then I was like, okay, get a Google Classroom. And then, when I guess the state pretty much was like, "oh, we’re not going back into the classrooms for the rest of the year". They revealed that late. And so pretty much, what that meant for me was that like, "oh, wait, I’m gonna have entirely new students that have never taken me before. They’ve probably seen me in the hallway. I’m the only Black female teacher. And that’s it." And this is where like the communication was not where it needed to be, or at least the coordination from admin, because there were only three teachers that were affected by this. In terms of getting new students, they didn’t really pay us any attention. And so we had to figure things out for ourselves. Of course we tried to come together. You’re dealing with all the things that you’re trying to deal with and then on top of that, try to figure out your job.
[00:43:13] Faythe: Yep, yep.
[00:43:14] Adia: And yeah, pulled through with that. But, I will say it was definitely important in terms of support, to actually have an extra adult. That is something that we don’t have. And I literally asked one of the building substitute teachers if she could actually help me with my Google Meet room, because we all probably remember how Google Meet was before the pandemic. And during lockdown it was like, "oh, you all actually wanna use this for your classrooms?"
[00:43:50] Faythe: yeah.
[00:43:51] Adia: Oh, you can’t really take attendance now, can you? You don’t even know who’s in here. She helped me out. And that is one thing that I like, would hope, is something that is actually, instantiated as we start to get districts and even states that are requiring computer science to actually have a paraprofessional in our classrooms. I’m heated about that because it’s just something that’s like, it should make sense.
[00:44:16] Faythe: Yep.
[00:44:16] Adia: Let’s actually talk about care. Unless anyone wants to briefly talk about their hybrid experience, if you wanna go down that road, if nobody wants to talk about it, it’s fine, cuz Yeah. Traumatized me.
[00:44:32] Santiago: Yeah, it’s so hard.
[00:44:36] Adia: Okay, cool. So let’s talk about care. Cause all of this , even reflection is, it’s hard and you really have to think about those like very strong emotions that you probably endured at that time. The overarching question is how have we struggled to create and cultivate cultures of care? So caring professions, so there’s teachers, right? Teaching, nursing, counseling. We were struggling before covid 19 and during the pandemic we’re, we struggled and we still are struggling, and struggle in both, in both forms. So there’s always like the negative connotation of struggle. There’s also a positive or a more action oriented, connotation of struggle, because that’s sometimes part of resistance. And so activists, such as Fred Hampton, Martin Luther King Jr., Fidel Castro, Marian Wright Edelman, so many different people have been quoted for describing why struggle is crucial to this work and to the resistance that we’re doing every day. So let’s get into first talking about how we cared for students and community needs.
[00:45:52] Santiago: Yes. I think that I align with you. I really believe that care, self care and community is a very strong form of resistance. I feel like sometimes the system wants to disintegrate us and the best way to resist that is through love and through care. And when you’re asking like "how do we care for students and in general, how do we cultivate a culture of care?" I feel like at the end of the day, we are doing this teaching for the students, and sometimes as teachers, not only as virtual or hybrid, we have a lot of pressure coming from parents, a lot of pressure coming from your boss, whoever that person is. In my case, was like the academic coordinator or the tech support or whoever is your boss, you have a lot of pressure. You have a lot of bureaucracy. You have a lot of things like forms to fill, grades to deliver. But I feel like at the end of the day, the priority is for students. And, I feel like maybe one way of caring for your students is like acknowledging that you are doing the best you can and you are delivering the best you can. But if it’s not perfect, that’s okay. Like you are learning to teach hybrid, and I know it’s, this sounds like more like how to take care of yourself, but I feel if you come to the virtual classroom or the hybrid classroom with an, the acknowledgement that you’re going to do the best you can, you’re going to sense that energy, you’re going to sense that you are not like stretching too much. They’re gonna sense that what we have been discussing like emotionally available for them. And you’re not only there to teach them how to do computer science, but you’re also there as a person for them. It’s not a question, but I feel like if you take care of yourself and if you are permissive with yourself and you know that you’re doing your best, even if it’s not perfect and you’re focusing on delivering emotionally relevant class, you are taking care of your students.
[00:47:48] Faythe: I agree wholeheartedly with what you’re saying, because one of the things that we are intentional about, in our district, as I mentioned, introducing computer science and in our district has been a big lift. And we have made it a priority to make sure that we have culturally responsive experiences for our students. Before we went under, getting to know your students, and being genuine with your students, knowing they know that you care and what that looks like. The students know when people care about them. And just really cultivating that and articulating that. And so when we transitioned online, how we can express that is to be very upfront with them and say, "yes, you have to, it’s necessary for you to come to school, we’re here to support you, care for you, and if there are days that you’re not feeling up to it, I understand. If there are days where we just need to stop and talk about what’s going on, we can do that." And just giving them a little autonomy and a little control of the classroom to say, "Hey guys, if you know, this is your classroom just as much as mine." And just, giving them power in the classroom that they have a voice was key for me because there were days where we just stopped and a student would just express their concerns about what’s going on in the world. And we would have that conversation and we would pick it back up tomorrow. And I would never stress about a grade. Never, because I’m just happy to see you, happy to see your avatar, because I know that you’re online. And today’s a new day. And so that’s how I approached it, because it was so precious. It was so precious. And so I looked forward to seeing that avatar. Most of the time it was like a comedic show that I would give them because I felt like I was just entertaining them for the most part. And I just enjoyed my 50 minutes skits and just moved on to the next class and hoped to see them the next day.
[00:49:54] Esmeralda: Yes. So like for me with the culture of care, I try to have kids like see me as a person, not just as their teacher. So like when we were remote, it was, I was at home and my four kids were all also here at home and they were remote, and I had to get two internet services just for it to hold all of our internet. So I explained that to them and I’m like, if there’s any time that my computer’s gonna glitch, I’m like, I’m paying for it. I got the one terabyte. I’m like, I don’t expect you guys to, so if you have issues with internet, don’t worry, it’s not just you and I understand. If you need to take off, I’m like, get off the video, get off the Meet. I’m like, I’m not gonna hold it against you because we do have GoGuardian. I’m like, so as long as you’re working, I’m like, you can also message me through GoGuardian. Where you don’t have to be on the Meet as long as I see that you’re working. So I made accommodations for them to make sure that they were all working, I made jokes of like my own kids, cuz sometimes my kids would run up here and be like, I’m hungry. And I’m like, how many of you are hungry? And then I’ll be like, all right, five minutes, take a snack break. I wanted them to see my human side, that I’m not just their teacher, I’m also a mother. I’m also, doing a lot of things so that can help build relationships with us, where I understand them. Some of them had like siblings to take care of cuz their parents had to work and I would be like, all right, stay on for while I explain it, then you could go and make sure you turn in. And I’m like, you are still gonna be responsible for it, but I need you to turn this in and if you have questions, I’m still here. But I understood it. And then we had like, I know I teach high school, but we had a show and tell. Where they would either show their siblings, or show like their pets, or like sometimes the pets would do random things all the time. And then on one day when the kid wasn’t there, it was like important to let them know we noticed "Hey, your dog didn’t come barking at the screen today. We missed it." It was like, I had to be creative in ways that I connected with my students and I felt like pets and siblings and things like that were one way I did it.
[00:52:14] Faythe: So I love the whole connecting a human because my students, like my first period students understood If Ms. Brannon is a little bit too hyper, they’ll be, "Ms. Brannon, you drink too much coffee." Each class, I will say I did eventually develop a genuine relationship with them, but I know that it would’ve been much more impactful if it was face-to-face. But I think that, the relationships were built off of the fact that they knew what you see, is what you get. And I’m gonna, I’m here to support you. You’re not alone. And give me what you have and we’ll work, give me your best try. Actually, your best is trying to just try, give me something and we’ll work from there. Because a lot of the students don’t think that they’re good enough on certain things. And so it’s just giving them that support and them knowing that you’re gonna champion for them. And it’s because I have a lot of students that are diverse learners. And so by now, when I get them in ninth grade, there are stories in their head about this whole thing of something they’re not good enough. And so then those are the conversations that I have them like reprogram: "you’re just special, you’re just unique. And we’re just figuring out like what your superpower is. But you have a voice, you have a choice, and you are special in this classroom." And so it’s really a lot. Yeah, it’s just a lot to deal with when you have the barrier of the computer in front of you to really just love and support on these kids the way in which they need, because they come to us in need of that love and support.
[00:53:59] Adia: And I could just like quickly, to that point because, we all have like diversity of learners, in many different ways and there’s all different types of diversity. And even in my particular context, so computer science was a required course in my school. And so that meant I had all students. And what that also meant is that, how do I put this? The communication pretty much fell through when it came to even accessibility, like in terms of preconceived notions and, I guess deficit thinking, that a lot of people had towards their students, their own students, because, they’re all like all of our students. And so not even just being in a contrasting space or counter space with their teachers, who have worked with them the entire year, but then also their own parents. And, what it means to do computer science, because as we mentioned many times before, nobody really knows. And there was a lot of advocacy I even had to do for my students, students who had a variety of neuromotor and cognitive, just along the spectrum of those different abilities. And just even being able to differentiate instruction, have an entirely different curriculum. Admin didn’t understand. And it wasn’t until, I wanna say my last year teaching, I actually was in IEP meetings, so the individual educational plan meetings, where they set goals for students and just being able to relay like what the cool things we were able to do. And seeing the family light up seeing the other teachers and even the coordinators light up was really important for me because I really was trying very hard.
[00:55:48] Faythe: And speaking of the IEPs and students that in the past, have had these labels, typically when students come in my classroom, unless it’s like, if they need adaptive technology, I try to meet them where they’re at. Some of my students with IEPs excel better and I believe it’s because they have this sense of patience to listen to what Ms. Brannon’s saying and follow her instruction. And I think that my regular ed kids are so used to quick, fast, and now that my special ed kids are like, "okay, Ms. Brannon, I’m gonna do what you said." And then my special ed kids end up tutoring my regular ed kids, which is amazing. And so that just goes to say there’s a space in computer science for all. Computer science is for all.
[00:56:36] Santiago: Yes.
[00:56:36] Faythe: And we just have to figure out where they fit and what’s best for them.
[00:56:40] Jen: Yeah. And thinking about what all of you talked about with humanizing the students and yourselves and really making space for them, that’s really where it makes a difference in the students’ lives. We do have one question we would like to ask. So the podcast is titled Recipes for Resistance, and we really have a dream of amplifying the thoughts and voices of those who have been minoritized. So in what ways do you resist or have you resisted, especially while teaching during the pandemic?
[00:57:14] Santiago: I think that’s a great question. And I think I resisted by learning to be comfortable even when I am really uncomfortable. Like, the pandemic meant a lot of stress, especially in countries in the global south. Everything was a mess. Nobody knew what was gonna happen. Our governments sometimes they improvise the things they do, well, I think, that happened like everywhere in the world, that was really stressful. And I think that understanding that was a time for uncertainty, and that every day I have to try to get by the end of the day as a teacher and teaching computer science, that was the way I resisted. And also while teaching computer science in Colombia and with the pandemic, everything was turned about like around virtual education and "oh, the importance of computer science, the importance of computers and digital literacy" and all that. I was like teaching from there taught me like, "oh, like we really need computer scientists all around the world because we never know when another pandemic like this one is going to happen. And I feel we need context-relevant technologies to teach computer science or teach whatever things, everywhere in the world. In the case of where I come from, what technologies can future computer scientists like create to teach in the jungle, to teach in very inaccessible places. And I feel like that I resisted through understanding and taking care of myself during those uncertain times. But also I was really motivated to resist through, "oh my God, like computer science need to be taught because that’s gonna be a tool for other people to resist in the future and that’s gonna be a mean to create new worlds and to create resistance and to create endurance in other pandemics, such as that one." I don’t know if that makes sense, but that’s what, that’s the way I resisted.
[00:59:26] Jen: Yes, it does. Thank you.
[00:59:28] Faythe: Regarding like resistance and what did I resist and why? So I think educators, we get bogged down or the feel a bogged down of all these pressures and things we need to do in the classroom. And I think as I reflect on my experience in the pandemic, the need to slow down and understand intentionally, like, what do the students need. And chunking it, like the whole notion of chunking it and not feeling that you’ve gotta get through all things. And it just reminds me of I’m willing to advocate that my curriculum will go at the pace of my students and I’m willing to continue to advocate that. Because as we know, there were some things that just slowed down cuz of the pandemic. And I’m still willing to meet my students where they’re at and I’m willing to have those hard discussions of why. And I can provide data that supports it, but I’m not gonna water down the experience for students. I’m just gonna continue to meet them where they’re at. And it just goes notion of our need in our classrooms to be comfortable. And being flexible to meet the needs of our students and not these outside entities and stakeholders that are not in their day-to-day fighting the fight and loving our kids in the ways in which they need to be successful outside in this world. And so I’m gonna continue to advocate and be their champion.
[01:01:11] Esmeralda: Yes. And for me, what I resisted in my situation was all the guidelines we had to follow. They were always talking about putting our students first and student-centered and student this. So I took that into practice. If I’m putting my students first, I am going to meet their needs first. Sometimes there were times where, yes, we had a lot of content to cover, but our kids were going through a crisis. So sometimes we would take a pause and the kids would be like, can we just talk for a while? And we’d just pause our curriculum and just talk. Or sometimes they would ask me if they had to go to lunch, if I would leave the Meet open so that they can socialize. Cuz in all their classes, they all had to just be quiet and listen, sometimes. So I didn’t wanna just follow that. I wanted to give them opportunities to also talk to each other cuz they didn’t know each other. So just giving them like that open time to either stop our classwork and take a breather and just talk about what’s going on with them and what they’re experiencing, any questions they have. Or just keeping the lunch open so that they can just talk about whatever. I did tell ‘em I would have to stay, I couldn’t leave them alone. So they had to monitor what they said, but just also making myself available to them. Cuz they needed to.
[01:02:36] Adia: I could just finish by saying so there were a lot of ways where I was, very much openly resisting. So I know that second year I knew that they didn’t know how to use the technology, one of the things that was a little annoying was weekly meetings. I know we say that teachers don’t get enough time to do meetings, but we had like weekly staff meetings, because of Covid and they were on Zoom and even when we were in person, they were on Zoom. I would write in the chat like how I felt. About halfway through the school year. They finally realized how to turn off the chat. The biggest resistance I think I did was actually, I think it was the final month of 2020. Massachusetts, we went similar to other large urban areas. We had school to June, and June 2020 was very tumultuous. It was literally a dumpster fire. And not only were you still dealing with lockdown teaching, but you were also dealing with things that were on the news. And then as a Black woman just being inundated with a lot of news about police brutality, uprisings, just different actions, that I did participate in. But it got to the point, where I couldn’t do it. And I was still teaching. And mind you, other school districts had ended by then, and so they didn’t necessarily have to deal with the emotional effects of that while also having to deal with this notion of "professionalism" and what does it mean when people say "be authentic", but then what does it mean, when you’re in this professional setting? And in thinking of doing what’s best for students and caring for students, in a lot of instances what was best for the teachers and caring for teachers was burn with the dumpster fire. There was one day, I remember emailing my principal saying that I couldn’t teach that week, and trying to process like, just everything. And this is I wanna say not only George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, but then also, I had a friend who was pretty much killed, by police brutality. Actually, the case was finally tried last week. So for me it was just like trauma. And so I literally, I had to say I had to resist work. And what I did was that week I set it up so that something was automatically scheduled on Google Classroom. I communicated to all the families and the, I wanna say the assignment for that week was actually about Black Lives Matter and different protests but in relation to computer science. And yeah, I took a step back, because I needed to care for myself. And I will say that was me also accepting, accepting a break because we had not had a break. Like my school district literally voted to not go on spring break, so it was too much. So yeah, that is how I resisted. And it showed to my students because as I said, suburban, so predominantly white, it showed them what it looked like for a Black person to care for themselves. I could potentially be the only Black teacher that they ever had, and I had to do that for myself. But then an extension, do it for them. So yeah, that’s me.
[01:06:16] Faythe: Wow. my condolences for your friend.
[01:06:19] Adia: Thank you so I’ve been saying, " when I grow up, I wanna be like her." Thank you.
[01:06:23] Faythe: Yeah, around the same time when, they started looting and things were happening in our city, I started panicking and I actually hopped a plane and went to a safer mental place, for about a month, to get away because this was after being in a house, in my house for months without much interaction cuz I don’t have a kid or married or pets. And I was just like, I think I’m about to lose it. I need to get away from this environment because I just think that everything is just crumbling. And thank God because it just helped me get it together because it was just a lot going on. And for my own mental health, I had to get away.
[01:07:03] Jen: Thank you so much for all of you for sharing and for being here.
[01:07:08] Faythe: My pleasure. It was good to reflect
[01:07:10] Adia: What a generative conversation, hearing about the challenges faced and overcome the creative solutions, and how teachers have cultivated community and care despite the obstacles was so heartwarming and compelling.
[01:07:25] Bri: I know I’ve gotten a ton of amazing food for thought out of this conversation. We hope everyone listening will also marinate on these ideas and that you’ve got more than a few morsels to take with you.
[01:07:34] Jen: If you’d like to contribute to an episode’s follow up, please feel free to reach out to us. We’d love to feature art, poetry, think pieces, and other forms of media inspired by the conversations from our podcast.
[01:07:49] Victoria: Thank you so much for joining us, and we’ll see you next time! Remember to follow us on Twitter @recipes4resist and sign up for episode updates on our website: recipes4resistance.github.io.